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So he's not only experienced - but also very well qualified. So every woman everywhere wants a guy who’s confident, who’s charismatic, who’s dominant, who has a sense of humor. [Angel Donovan]: Yeah, and you know, the whole Confucian angle has a big link to the 'face concept', you know, and it’s a really important topic, so what you have to understand when it comes to Asian women is face. [Angel Donovan]: The thing is this also gets a little bit hyped, I think, the topic of face. For example, the advice that you can never win a debate, and the reason being even if you won the debate, you’ve now shamed this guy in front of all his peers and friends. Like if you think in China, they usually have these… You just sort of stick your face out there and you’re just meeting with your vibe.This was a great discussion that both David and I enjoyed, as we've both been living and dating in Asia for many years. Certainly when I first went to China, it was always the big thing, face, which I think it can also be translated to things that happen in the West as well, that face exists in the West as well, it’s just that it’s something, I mean for me, that happens more like you see more of it or it’s more noticeable in the East. The hottest girls are usually with rich dudes who are buying bottles, and the typical Chinese club is just tables after tables after tables and a tiny dance floor. [David Tian]: And the Chinese guys are playing dice and drinking, because they don’t dance. [David Tian]: And the rook switches places with the king. Now, I think the other angle is that the signs that you’re reading from girls like these bitch signs like you were just talking about and other signs you get from the women in Asia sometimes can be very easily misinterpreted if you don’t understand the culture, if you don’t understand the kind of the situation you’re standing in. When I first started doing this in China, I’d been trained in America, then when I went over I didn’t escalate very much and I felt like I wasn’t getting anywhere. But once she accepts your presence, you can basically start cave manning at that point. [Angel Donovan]: [Laughs] [David Tian]: Oh, you mean, like not hamburgers and burgers and pizza? [Angel Donovan]: [Laughs] [David Tian]: But anyway, so yeah, Asia—you know, I did my Ph D in the Asian studies department, and even there we felt a pretty big divide between South Asia, which is mainly represented by India and the surrounding countries there, and Southeast Asia, and then East Asia. Whereas in Asia I think it’s because there's a name for it, I mean there's a concept and it’s very well-known and accepted, is they’re more sensitive to those issues. [David Tian]: [Laughs] [Angel Donovan]: So you know, I mean this is actually very, very practical and useful advice here. And then when you come back to the West you actually see these things really powerful, because now you see like kind of in more depth how women are because you’ve noticed these subtle things and now you can see them… [Angel Donovan]: Because they were magnified in Asia. You know what, the way I think about it is when you go back to New York or Toronto or LA, you can be messy. [David Tian]: You can let go, be loose, and shit happens and you touched too far or you might spit out [laughs] because you’ve had too much to drink, and you can get away with all that.[Angel Donovan]: Hey, this is Angel Donovan at Dating Skills Review with Dating Skills Podcast. [David Tian]: Yeah, it’s pretty cool too because you’ve had quite a bit of experience in Asia as well, so it’s really nice to be able to talk to a guy who understands the issues that are unique to this part of the world. And there's just a lot of bored-looking Chinese girls sitting around the couch. [David Tian]: Or those five-minute interactions, you exchange numbers, just totally down to meet up – as soon as she turns around, those guys can be in her face, the girls can be looking at her like, “You just talked to a random foreigner.” So I don’t mean this to scare any guys off from approaching at clubs in China or at tables, but it is a challenge, like they’re designed in order to ward off random people approaching them, sort of like on a chessboard when they do that, what’s that called? That's sort of designed to protect the women and for there to be an intimidating presence there. So like in particular, one of the areas I found is like where you don’t feel that the girl’s responding to you, you don’t feel that anything is really going on and it’s not moving forward, because she’s not really giving these signs to you. Are there other kinds of signs and indicators of interest to use that are different from the West? So you put your arm around her shoulder, you bring her in and you just lead, lead, lead.Today we have David Tian, who is also known as the Asian Rake. [Angel Donovan]: [Laughs] [David Tian]: [Laughs] But even if you’re the hottest guy, you approach that group, because of face, because of social circle pressure, she really can’t pay you any attention. And the key there is, just like with any long-term strategy with any guy who’s going to be doing this for longer than a few months, is that you really need to be building a social that has access, will give you access to cool guys who know hot girls. And so I thought, “Well, I’ve got nothing to lose,” because I’m not getting anywhere waiting for what I then thought of as IOI, because I wasn’t getting any of those.
So it’s really good to have someone with a very rigorous background and a lot of experience. Yeah, I think a lot of it was the Asian romance as they grew up, like things like they didn’t have the Hollywood imprinting about how a man and a woman should be courting each other. Or they’ve been watching the typical Asian dramas where there's the shy girl… And then you have like, you know, if you look at those kinds of dramas, it’s always the guy who wants to do everything, right? And she’s actually going to look like she’s resisting if you don’t know what you’re looking for. It’s rarer to get a girl just looking deeply into your eyes when you first meet and for her to have this deep conversation with you, getting really excited and touching you.
See, it only comes from a guy who really knows Asia, who’s been to Asia, because when you’re in the West you just think Asian food are the worst, and Toronto people say, “Hey, where do you want to eat? So most of my research has been on East Asia, which means China, Japan and Korea primarily, and I think they are the most represented in pop culture and in America at least. [David Tian]: But there is a huge Filipino and Vietnamese community in America that's bigger than the Japanese or Korean community that most people don’t realize. So in the West maybe you wouldn’t get faulted for making somebody lose face. [Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I think these abstract things can be kind of hard to understand. [Angel Donovan]: So like if, say, one day you’re in a shopping center and you approach a girl and there's a whole bunch of people around, not people she necessarily knows, is face going to come into that situation at all? Well, the more modernized and Westernized Asians get, the less concerned about what other people think about them matters. [David Tian]: But most Asians care a lot about what other people think of them. It’s about timing and being aware of your environment, seeing that you don’t put social pressure on her, which is going to negatively affect the situation. [Angel Donovan]: So you have to pay attention to that factor. If you’re in a bar or club, you really need to focus a lot on positioning and getting mini-isolation so that her back is to her peer group if you’re going to escalate physically in any way, because otherwise she’s going to be super-sensitive about what her friends are thinking about her. Whereas in Asia, the margin of error is not quite as large and you really have to keep your game tight.